Children Boxing, Health


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Rambutan
Tonight there is a programm on my local tV about Thaiboxing, especially about kids fighting and training in Thailand.
The documantary states that the children who fight at early age in Thailand end up with brain damage because their brain is still underdevelopped . Due to this they end up with a lower IQ and memory issues. ( according to professor Jiraporn Laothamatus)

S
also havent developed the musculature or technique to generate power and injure one another.........end of thread

Rambutan
some of them still end up knocked out cold at 11 years old .....

Rambutan
So I watched the documentary and they showed a professor who does research in the effects of MT on young children.
She did brain scans on 200 children who fight and 200 who don't.
The kchildren who fight show mutliple signs of brain damage due to head traumas.
this results in dementia, lower IQ, cognitive issues etc...

Children fights should be forbidden by law!

rarave82
True, but money talks.

Rambutan
they are trying to change the legal status on those fights, just hope they will succeed

S
rarave82 end of thread means end of thread, my mt fanaticism wont allow logical reasoning

Rambutan
Damon, I think this is something we should talk about and we should be aware off it that we are supporting this when going to stadium fights.
it is not a joke or whatever you think of it.

redmike

samesame but in english, yes?

SmokeClouds
I can't see it being much worst then kids wrestling, like here in the US.

Rambutan
Smokeclouds do they get knocked out in wrestling also? This is a erious question I have no idea about wrestling, I nhere children practice Judo and that seems quit save imo

SmokeClouds
Rambutan, They don't usually get Knocked out, but it does happen from slams and chokes. I think the pressure and weight cuts create alot of stress for them. The type of training they go through is intense for a child and the type of injuries can last a life time. Same goes for american Football, both need to be extremely regulated for kids here in the US imo...
But I do understand the importance of encouraging kids to do many sports and finding one they can stick to through their life weather its for discipline and health or as a career as long as it's in a safe manner.

SmokeClouds
Children shouldn't be engaged in activities that cause concussions would be a good lesson to take from these studies.

Croatoan
I doubt taking repeated blows to the head is good for anyone of any age, however as adults that's a choice we choose to make and we know the risks. Kids don't always have that choice, neither do they have the knowledge of the possible consequences to themselves even if they do.

rarave82
Guys guys, what are you doing??

S (Damon) said "end of thread"

bumwau
So who is going to give them the money they are 'working' to make ?

Croatoan
I guess the same people who give the vast majority of Thai kids who don't fight their money.
Most Thai families and their kids survive without their kids having to earn money by fighting.

Rambutan
The documentary had a kid who's family was not dependend at all of the childs money, it was just a side line but not a need. So him getting brain trauma so they can buy more gadget is not acceptable.
The other kids father said " if my child cannot fight anymore I will have to go to BKK and work", now he is jobless... still not a good excuse imo.

Croatian( Andy), the difference is that the childrens brains are still developping so the harm is much worse

Ruben, it not Damon who decides if a thread ends or not. I know some people prefer to talk about hookers and boxing gloves but this is an important topic we often forget when we pay to go watch a fight ( and by paying we sponsor this kind of abuse).

rarave82
"Ruben, it not Damon who decides if a thread ends or not. I know some people prefer to talk about hookers and boxing gloves but this is an important topic we often forget when we pay to go watch a fight ( and by paying we sponsor this kind of abuse)."

I know buddy, just said in a ironic way. Relax.

Rambutan
i was not attacking you Ruben, it was Damons post that kind of pissed me off :-)

bumwau
So they will easily survive like they are doing now minus the fighting ?

muaythaifocus
was that a genuine study with actual scans of 200 kids? Ive not seen it so cant say, has there ben a similar study of kids in west playing football, heading the ball can't be good either, what about rugby? I am not taking sides either way, but there has been a real trend recently of journalists coming here focussing on the kids fighting issue, a large amount of them sensationalizing things looking to sell their dock, papers or what ever, has there actually been any genuine scientific studies carried out yet?

muaythaifocus
and as for the two or so mentioned that say they don't need the money, is that a broad indication of all the kids fighting in Thailand? are their possibly many more kids who's families would be a lot worse off without the added income they bring in? Is it a lot easier to say what is good for these kids in the comfort of the west with a steady income and lots of choices to make and a strong social network to fall back on?

Croatoan
Yes some families would be worse off, but others might just have to work harder. And anyway lots of families would be better off if they rented their kids out to paedophiles yet they don't. And if they did would anyone really be on here arguing it was OK just because they needed the extra money?
Families whose kids are no good at fighting still get by after all. My argument is however poor you are, it doesn't make it right. And as I say, there are plenty of poor families all over the world, even in the west, who could make more money by making their kids fight or putting them to work as prostitutes.
It will no doubt offend purists to let kids wear headguards and have a no hitting to the head rule up to a certain age, but fuck them, there's no real reason not to do it. Watching kids fight is shit anyway because they're just not very good. It's often (mostly?) about gambling rather than entertainment and as long as there are winners and losers that can go on just as it always has.

muaythaifocus
would head guards make it safer though? I'm not sure but wasn't it found they make it worse for trauma to the brain when hit, I could be wrong though?
Nobody would be arguing that it is o.k to rent kids out to pedophiles, not really a strong comparisons to make for that argument is it
Again though what true in-depth scientific studies have been made to the actual level of dangers to the kids has been made and again what about other sports kids participate in widely in the west in far greater numbers, football, american football rugby etc….? Also amateur boxing kids fight in the west with head contact right? got to be more dangerous in comparison with the amount of head contact to Muaythai?
Again I'm not condoning or offering my stance either way here just adding questions to the debate

Croatoan
The paedophile analogy relates to what is and isn't acceptable damage to inflict on kids simply because you're poor, so strong enough I think.
Studies? I doubt there's been many as up until recently nobody gave a shit in countries where kids regularly fight. Until there is perhaps it makes sense to adopt a common sense approach which suggests that being hit repeatedly on the head is more likely to be less safe than not being hit.
As fighting at this age should surely be more about learning and practicing technique rather than demonstrating pain and punch resistance I see no problems with headguards, and even a no hitting to the head rule under a certain age (which even if the jury is still out on headguards, would almost certainly make the sport safer for children). In most countries kids are well protected when practicing martial arts with head and even body protection and people don't seem to have a problem with that. Kids have relatively large heads and weak necks compared to adults which means any blow is more likely to do damage than it would to an adult. (See article below about football which states "Youngsters also have disproportionately big heads. By the age of five, their heads are about 90 percent of their adult circumference, but the neck has not nearly developed to that point. They have big heads on very weak necks and that bobblehead-doll effect means you don’t have to impact the head as hard to cause damage.")

I think, though could be wrong, that in boxing, in the uk anyway, headguards and relatively large gloves are worn when kids fight. I think, but again could be wrong, that 11 is the youngest age you can legally compete.
If it's dangerous then for me it's about informed consent, and few if any kids know enough to make that decision, so should not be made to take part. And that holds true for any country, not just Thailand.

And heading a ball may well be dangerous, yes.
www.scientificamerican.com/art... ...-cause-brain-damage/

beard
they did find that headguards do little to protect against concussive impact and even, given that they restrict peripheral vision, can make rounded strikes like hooks and kicks more dangerous. also, they give a false sense of security that can lead you to pay less attention to defence than you otherwise would. That's why male amateur boxers no longer wear them, for example in the recent Commonwealth Games

I'm really on the fence on this one- so many families rely on this income and I think fighting so much as a kid is a vital element in Thai fighters getting so good. Your potential in any athletic endeavour is much greater if you start early, and this is also why they seem so tough and fearless, they never learn the fear of getting hurt that most of us develop as we grow up

On the other hand, I'm sure there are examples of children suffering serious damage due to fighting (though how widespread remains to be seen). Having said that, I'd like to see such data compared to those western kids who play football, american football, rugby etc, as rob said. Also wrestling, less for head trauma more for making often brutal weight cuts with dangerous methods, repeatedly over a relatively short time frame.

I also take these articles and documentaries about the issue with a pinch of salt- all the ones I have seen appear very sensationalised and looking to sell a certain point, rather than give a balanced view. Not to mention the fact that people's emotions can often get the better of their judgement when it comes to kids

So yeah, really on the fence on this issue. But either way, regardless of what we say from our relatively cushty lives with decent jobs, plenty of food and good infrastructure, I don't think it is gonna stop any time soon

bumwau
I get this feeling that its easy for a westerner who had it easier in life to post on how theoretically kids shouldn't have to go through all this.

minr
I don't agree with kids fighting, I agree with them using heavily padded equipment for sparring but not fighting they risk serious brain damage from all those blows to the head and it's child exploitation too.

Hawkman
i doubt if anyone in Thai land bothered to do 400 brain scans of kids? a fucking MRI cost me 4 grand last time. was it all Thai kids or was it nam muay kids compared with western kids brains?

Rob is right where he says about blunt force trauma from head guards causing more damage.

its not child exploitation anymore than it is to let little Timmy do TKD or Karate for 10 years, costing his parents a bomb and giving him a martial art which he has been mislead to believe may actually be practical and effective, However I digress.

there was some controversial research I believe a few years back which came to the conclusion that people from equatorial climates tended to have lower IQ and less neofrontal cortex development than those from Northern climes due to the amount of nutritional energy used up during infancy just to fight off the myriad of tropical infections and diseases. The brain uses a huge amount of sugars and if metabolic processes have to be diverted elsewhere for mere survival then the body will do so.

so its possible that S E Asian kids have smaller brains anyway. Thick cunts.

S
sorry if I hurt feelings little pussy.....

S
sorry I retract my last statement..........fuck stadium muay Thai .....faggots

johnny
im not a doctor, and I dont know the studies, whether they are genuine or just bla bla
but I did feel sad sometimes in Thailand, seeing kids fights, specially at small promotions
in rural areas ....
one thing I'm quite shure: you dont get that many headblows and knockouts in Muay Thai
compared ie to boxing.
protections .... well the headgear is usefull mostly when you fall down on the backside of
the head. thats where the good jaidee referees of Thailand try to jump in and use their hand
to protect the falling boxers ....
dont know. but id leave it to the Thai s to sort out what they want to do.

mylittletony
Hawkman, got a source on that study?

Vlad
either damaged by concussions or by getting heavily drunk
same shit

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